Comments on: How Can Both Barefoot Running and Hokas Reduce Knee Pain?–A Possible Explanation from a New Study

By: bad knees and shin splints

bad knees and shin splints — Tue, 23 Feb 2016 16:58:05 +0000

I prefer running with shoes. They provide me good feeling. Barefoot running increase my foot pain. Would you like clear the concept how barefoot reduces knee pain more briefly?

By: Peter Larson

Peter Larson — Sat, 23 Jan 2016 19:09:07 +0000

In reply to Patrick Greer. It really varies from individual to individual, but if Hokas are working for you stick with them.

By: Patrick Greer

Patrick Greer — Thu, 14 Jan 2016 02:30:53 +0000

You have nicely explained the concept, Peter Larson! I used to run daily in the morning wearing a heavy weight running shoe. Then, my doctor consults me to use a lightweight shoe, but still feel knee pain. After reading your article, I go with Hokas and barefoot running last few days. Suddenly, there is no knee problem. I never tried something like it. Can you also suggest some running shoes that do not cause knee problem?

By: Knee Pain

Knee Pain — Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:24:54 +0000

First, Thanks so much for sharing this hugely informative post with us! Second, I personally experienced that running barefoot is very effective in relieving knee pain

By: bob baks

bob baks — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I remember when I first started trying to get the hang of natural running, I tried to copy a certain barefoot guru. His knees seemed to always be quite bent, even at mid-stance, and that's what I tried to do as well. After a couple of days of this, I was screwed up worse than I have been the whole time I've been running. Over the winter, I focused on getting myself balanced with one-legged stances and other exercises of my own devising, and when I did run, I took it slow in ultra-minimal footwear and tried for a forefoot strike. Since then, I've felt really good, and have not been plagued by any injuries. I have also been surprised to see in my race pictures that my knee at mid-stance is not quite as flexed as I would imagine it would be.

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Walter.

Glute weakness has been implicated in ITBS, so this seems like a good approach. There are lots of ways to achieve the goal of reducing stress to a target tissue, strengthening supporting tissues, increasing mobility, shoes/orthotics, etc. different solutions for different problems and different people I suppose.
Sent from my iPad

By: kellydomara

kellydomara — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Hmm, interesting. I'm really curious what you've had to say about the reported industry move back towards "maximalism." Obviously, it works for some people and maybe you've already talked about this and I missed it because I've been totally zoned out, but it would be curious that trend plays out, particularly if your theory is correct about knee pain.

By: Robert Osfield

Robert Osfield — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I feel your hypothesis about runners in HOKA running with stiffer joints and resulting lower knee flexion at mid-stance is reasonable. This would need to be done whilst avoiding increases in stride length/reduction in cadence.

One thing I think may well be important to stress related injuries is that eccentric loading tends to be more damaging that concentric loading. Not only are the absolutely forces important but the amount of stretching that the muscles, tendons and ligaments undergo whilst under load. Reducing the amount of movement of the joints during loading may be as important as reducing the actual loading on those soft tissues

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to rogerinsydney.

Wow, thanks for the info Roger! Seems to confirm my suspicion, would love to see that data. My wife has benefited greatly from Hokas, so I thank you for that!

----
Pete Larson's Web Links:
-My book: Tread Lightly: http://ow.ly/bdUO0
-Blog: https://runblogger.com
-Twitter: http://twitter.com/Runblogger
-Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/Runbl...
-Discussion Forum: https://runblogger.com/forum

By: Rick Merriam

Rick Merriam — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Pete Larson.

I was referring to what you were doing consciously Pete. By consciously trying to pull your foot into more dorsiflexion and inversion, you are also getting a lateral (external) rotation of the lower leg. All of those motions are essential to prepare the landing gear. If you had pain when you consciously tried to dorsiflex, it's most likely an indication that your tibialis anterior can not pull the foot to the end range at the ankle, subtalar joint and the lower leg at the knee. (Yes, the tibialis anterior will extend the lower leg at the knee joint.)

If you can't get into that position prior to landing, you won't have as much motion in the opposite direction to decelerate and dissipate force. And the patella is not going to stay on track because the timing mechanisms are off.

I agree with the stiffening on softer surfaces etc. However, I think you would agree that every runner has a different potential for muscle stiffness. The amount of available motion at a joint, muscle fiber ratios and athletic potential are all variables.

Mark is a great example because he is going to have a ton of stiffness naturally.

Any research that is done on a treadmill is a call for concern because running on a treadmill is very different than running on land. The muscles are not called upon in the same way. And the tibialis anterior is a great example of that!

By: kellydomara

kellydomara — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Pete Larson.

Good point. Obviously, the long tail captures a lot of niche. It sounded to me very cyclical -- almost like the industry just tries to convince people to buy something new...

By: Steve Fines

Steve Fines — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Interesting.

What if one has already spent some time increasing cadence?

I typically run at 90-100, but didn't a few years ago.

I wonder if 110% of my preferred would be 110% of my current, or what I was at before I thought much about cadence?

I sure do love the Hoka's. Running 70 miles/week with pretty much no bad pain. Used to run in some thin Altra's and my metatarsals started hating life above 45 miles/week in those.