Comments on: Amby Burfoot on Energy Return in Running and the adidas Boost Midsole

By: Alan

Alan — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Hi Pete - thanks for the update.Do you think the boost could help with micro-vibrations? I have 2 herniated disks in my lower back, so have stopped running and am doing physical therapy and unfortunately taking daily pain meds. Three out of four doctors I've seen have said I'll need to stop running for good because so-called micro-vibrations will hurt my back more. Can't seem to find too much about this from the little googling I did. Is this a real concern? and if so, anything I could do to mitigate it, whether something like this shoe or anything else?
(FYI, until I got hurt I used to run 4-5 times a week, most recently using Adidas micoach app as a training tool. Haven't run any races longer than 16K in the last decade, though did run 3 marathons in my younger days). thanks!

By: Cash Coyne

Cash Coyne — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

There needs to be a a lab that can test the shoes in a way more like the way real running works. For example, a machine that simulates a stride and landing, measures the forces on the landing, and the exact amount of energy (wattage) it takes for the next stride. That way you could see if the energy returned by the shoe is more or less than other shoes.

It intrigues me because when you look at something like the Air-Trekker, it does seem that it returns more energy and let’s people run faster because of it. So, while that’s an extreme end of the spectrum, maybe there is a little bit of that principle in the Boost.

This is the Air-Trekker: http://www.amazon.com/Air-Trek…

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Ryan Clements.

"I sit and declare shennanigans on Adidas knowing full well that if I had a pair in front of me, I'd put them on and do my 50 miles in them." <--- I resemble this statement :)

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By: Ryan Clements

Ryan Clements — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Pete Larson.

Do you think that's possible? It seems that mechanical testing is so much more easily controlled from a variable standpoint versus getting a legit sample size of runners able to be tested under the same conditions?

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Sam Winebaum.

I should have a pair coming as well, interested to try it. I agree that innovation is good and am completely open to the possibility that Boost is a game change, but the scientist in me demands evidence to back the marketing.

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Alan.

Haven't tried Boost yet so don't know. Should have a pair soon. Vibrations are very real, google muscle tuning and you may find some info about it. I think with lower back issues you want to attempt to attenuate shock as much as possible before it reaches the level of the lower back. A shoe with good shock absorbing qualities is one option, stride modification is another. Short strides with a forefoot strike might help in this case. As Sam suggests, something like the Hokas could also be worth a shot.
Sent from my iPad

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to SolidSlug.

My problem is not the material or the shoe. It's the marketing.

Sent from my iPad

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Ryan Clements.

Shoe companies always need a new angle for marketing purposes, but they also have an interest in improving design to stay ahead of competitors. If Boost does work, it would be a boon for adidas, as would Mobium for Puma. But that's what gets me - you could make a much bigger splash if you could link up the mechanical testing to a performance benefit. Close the loop so to speak.

By: Tuck

Tuck — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Fudge, I posted a comment, and disqust ate it.
The point was, if you want a steel ball to bounce real high, bounce it off concrete. If you want maximum energy return to your feet when you're running, take off your adidas Boost and run barefoot on concrete. Adding energy-absorbing layers under your feet reduces performance, does not increase it (unless you compare it to something worse).

By: Sam Winebaum

Sam Winebaum — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

This debate will continue until runners actually try the Boost. I agree it's how it feels first and foremost. The marketing is the marketing and the ball test is trying to make a point in a simple fashion, to sell shoes to lots of people. Is the bounce a valid indicator of a runner's energy return? who knows till we try them and real testing is done. What is interesting is that this is a new midsole material with very promising properties. In addition to the bounce effect the consistent cushion over a wide temperature range is very interesting. has anyone looked at the effect of temperature, especially colder temperatures on shoes and performance, those "brick" midsoles on a cold day. Apart from Newton, trying to do a similar rebound effect by loading the lugs into the midsole then releasing or ON with their crushable lugs which spring back most everything else is more or less the same EVA and different geometries of midsole (stack height, drop, rockers, etc...). Lest we forget what has happened in use of new materials and processes above the midsole in just the last few years. These days hardly any decent shoe have stitched uppers, all welded overlays or no overlays at all Flyknit. Lighter less constricting shoes the result. Innovation is good and the Boost midsole appears to me innovative, due to the RW tests, if over hyped. I am getting a pair and will let you know. Now give me a Boost Adios or something with lower drop and I will be really psyched

By: Ryan Clements

Ryan Clements — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In general, I tend to be a skeptic of any system/substance that seems to 'do the work' for you. To me, running is more than elevating your hear rate for the purpose of fitness, which is seems like Boost doing, and for me, equipment should be, as Amby put it, an extension of the body and not a quasi-treadmill that you wear.

I have the same kind of feeling about Puma's Mobium technology as well. It's basically replicating the function of the plantar fascia IMO - do you think this is the new trend coming along? Equipment that more and more actually doing the work for you instead of with you?

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Ryan Clements.

It is possible, but it takes time, and time is the problem. Shoe companies ave production cycles that don't necessarily mesh with the scientific publishing timelines. They may not want to wait for the data. And that's a problem. The alternative is to be more transparent in marketing products and avoid potentially deceptive marketing.