Comments on: Saucony Virrata Preview: New Zero-Drop, Cushioned Running Shoe Coming Next Year

By: NeilR

NeilR — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Ah yes, well I am thrilled the upper of the Kinvaras continually improve! Now just for the midsole/outsole.
By the way- on page 70 of Tread Lightly. Hats off and more on a fantastic compilation of information, studies and education on everything running. This is a great, great book!

By: NeilR

NeilR — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Pete Larson.

Excellent points and I should have been more clear to indicate wear is eithe abrasion or compression. You are absolutely right that runners don't tend to 'get away' with much going completely barefoot- friction (or scuff running as I call it), overstrinding, heavy striking. You can't cheat barefoot.
Back to the shoes- my criticism (personal and from shoe analysis at clinic) of the Kinvara-Hattori line is its a somewhat overly plush, low durometer EVA that breaks down way too quick. A little more rubber might help them go a longer way er...distance ;)

By: jpwg

jpwg — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to rod.

Funny, I tend to think Saucony is a little too wide in the forefoot. I've been running in Saucony for about 3 years, and only the Fastwitch and Type A4/5 have been narrow enough in the forefoot. And I also wonder if Saucony is going to eventually reduce the ridiculous amount of cushioning in the Kinvara/Virrata lines. My feeling is that a little more proprioception could perhaps go a long way in improving form and reducing certain types of injury. What used to be regarded as a "minimalist" shoe is looking more like an overly-cushioned shoe meant for to transitioning to more proprioceptive/minimalist shoes.

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to NeilR.

Neil,

I'm not sure I understand why they don't put rubber in that area. Abrasion will vary from person to person (e.g., I don't wear that area much at all), but it seems common enough to think they'd want to take care of it.

Pete

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By: Noel Guzman

Noel Guzman — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Will it be available in widths though?

By: Johnny

Johnny — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

It would be interesting to see how this shoe compares to the Skechers Go Bionic.

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to NeilR.

I think the issue is mainly friction generated due to relative movement between the shoe and ground surface on landing. I do see midsole compression in my Kinvaras, but the actual wearing down of the midsole due to abrasion is pretty minimal along the outer margin. One thing I've noticed in my high speed videos is that there is a ton of variation in foot movement at contact among runners - lots of people kind of plow forward a bit into the ground, which I think is the major cause of lateral abrasion. Very few people running barefoot do this as avoidance of abrasion is critical to saving the plantar skin. I think it's one of the often overlooked aspects of how barefoot running promotes form change - it's not just impact, but also avoidance of friction.

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to james.

I'd say that at least for me, that 4mm makes a big difference.

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to SLalley.

I'd say it's easier to go zero drop with cushion than into something with very little cushion like a Vivobarefoot, but caution is warranted either way.

By: NeilR

NeilR — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

It looks like the midsole EVA makes up the majority of the outersole aside from 2 different locations. (Like its Kinvara and Hattori cousin)
Just a personal remark but a chief complaint I would make about the Kinvara and Hattori is the lack of durability due to lack of any blown rubber. The shoes may be light but end up demolished quickly with any consistent mileage schedule. I got about <300km on my Hattoris before they were chewed up, compared to >800km on my NB MR10s.I have seen numerous Kinvaras wear out both quickly and deform unevenly due to this too. I like that they will have a zero drop option but suggest offering some protection at the areas of higher abrasion along the midfoot's lateral border.Just my take. That being said, I look forward trying them out, haha.

By: MatKep

MatKep — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Love the Kinvara and this looks like a logical next step for anyone looking for a flatter, lighter shoe that can handle daily mileage. My only complaint about the Kinvava, and this Virrata appears to have the same issue, is the toe box is too tight. Those looking for a flatter, lighter shoe often appreciate a wider, roomier toe box as well. It's more natural. Kinvara 3s are better in this aspect, but not great. I hope they address this with the Virrata and future Kinvaras. That said, I can't wait till Feb.

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to NeilR.

Ah, gotcha now. Yeah, my original Kinvaras had compressed and flattened quite a bit after 200+ miles even though there was little abrasion. Then the upper ripped when I lent them to a friend so they were retired. It's definitely not the most durable of shoes.