Comments on: On Human Variability, Running Shoes, and Running Form: The Importance of an Individualized Approach https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html Running Shoes, Gear Reviews, and Posts on the Science of the Sport Sat, 15 Oct 2011 17:05:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.11 By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-336636935 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-336636935 In reply to naturalrunningstore.

Unfortunately they didn’t record much kinematic data beyond stance time, but they speculated that the two subjects with no impact transient were midfoot strikers and the others heel-toe. So yes, I suppose form manipulation could change things – it would be interesting to see how those two very divergent individuals would respond if they ran barefoot.

]]>
By: . . https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-692292633 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-692292633 WIth all this talk about evolution, nobody asks the question: why do we even have a pronounced heel then? If forefoot striking is the “best” way to run, we should be like cats and dogs and walk around without our “heels” touching — the heel going the way of Wisdom Teeth. Since we have still have prominent heels, my guess is that it is somehow beneficial to use them when we run.

]]>
By: D. Casey Kerrigan, M.D. https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-337592104 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-337592104

As always, a really nice article, Pete. One thought,
tangential to your main point but here… The impact peak is indeed just the
weight of the foot hitting the ground. If you were to model the body mass on
top of a spring (a leg) you would see something that looks just like the active
peak without the impact. But if you add to that model a small weight at the
bottom of the spring, you would see something that looks much like an impact force
preceding the active peak. The important thing with respect to injury, is what occurs
at the tip of the active peak – that is where joint torques and forces are
greatest and relate to where injuries (like osteoarthritis) occur. 

]]>
By: theo7272 https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-336200500 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-336200500 I’m not sure this post or paper does a good job at emphasizing the point you are trying to make.  Comparing each subject to one another in the same shoes would do more to emphasize variability.  I don’t think any research needs to be done between soft and firm shoes as the emphazise needs to be  on form. I believe their is no debate on what is best for everyone.  Short quick strides, with a midfoot-forefoot strike.  I would imagine if these same subjects were instructed how to land properly on their midfoot, impact forces would be lowered in both types of shoes.  I would also guess that impact forces with a midfoot strike in a firm shoe would have overall the lowest impact force.  As someone with a masters in biology, I understand why you included the finches but those are 4 different species and even a couple different genera, who evolved different beak shapes to specialize in feeding.  We are all one species trying to accomplish the same goal so I believe that their is one “best” form with possible slight variations.  Maybe everyone can’t start out wearing a pair of VFF or barefoot but I don’t think heal striking in a 12mm off-sett shoe is healthiest most efficient way for anyone to run. 

]]>
By: theo7272 https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-336675643 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-336675643 In reply to Pete Larson.

 This is why I will follow your blog for as long you keep it.  You always provide great explanation and insight and I agree with everything you just stated.  I agree that because of a lack of natural selection for our physical traits that their will be greater variability but also it would be unlikely that multiple forms would ever arise like the finches.   

I am curious about the heel strikers of the Kenyan children as Ii reminds me about the picture you put up with the Patrick Makau heel striking in his world record race.  I often hear people talk about elites running a certain way but does that mean the way they run is the best or even the best for them.  Is it possible that Makau could have ran even faster if he didn’t heel strike?  Was he running the most efficient way possible?  Are the Kenyan children that heel strike, running the most efficient  way for them? Just because they have never had shoes on their feet, does that mean they naturally run the most efficient way?    

]]>
By: mike https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-337684548 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-337684548 To continue with this evolutionary/philosophical discussion, I thought you might enjoy this article:

CULTURE ON THE GROUND: the World Perceived Through the Feet
TIM INGOLD 2004

available here:
http://www.nyu.edu/classes/bkg

It explores the role hand-tools vs feet-walking/locomotion played in evolution…it goes on to some cross-cultural analysis of walking gaits, among other things…the develop of distinctive ‘form cultures’

]]>
By: Hoka One One Australia https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-336350278 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-336350278 great to read a thoughtful discussion comparing running shoes that does point out too many assumptions are being made – on both the establishment side of things and the barefoot side of things. Personally I think it’s great to listen to different ideas and insights and weigh them against your own running experience, rather than chasing some grail of perfect running that might just not be your perfect running.
At the Hoka One One blog, we’re hosting some video interviews with running legend and Boulder Running Company co-owner Johnny Halberstadt, with a couple on biomechanics and minimalism to come. Please drop by and have a listen – very interesting dude.
http;//http://www.hokaoneoneaustralia.wordpr...

We’re anti-establishment and not entirely minimal, so there’s something for all y’all. ; )

]]>
By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-338241383 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-338241383 In reply to Flymypg.

Bob,

1. I agree to an extent, but I think it’s the combination of both “hard” and “unvarying” that is at issue, and perhaps moreso the latter than the former. I can run fine barefoot on asphalt, in fact I find it quite enjoyable, and most barefoot runners would agree that smooth asphalt is the preferred surface to run on.

2. I’d guess something along the lines of a shuffle run with minimal flight time? That being said, I’m pretty sure my grandmother’s severely arthritic knees would prevent her from doing even that!

]]>
By: . . https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-692346743 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-692346743 In reply to Pete Larson.

So our heels make it clear that evolution has designed us to walk rather than run, so all the talk about the “natural” way to run sort of becomes moot: even though we can run, it’s not our primary evolutionary design.

]]>
By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-336684408 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-336684408 In reply to theo7272.

Thanks Theo – all great questions, and I wish I had the answers! Makau is wearing the Adidas Adios I believe, which has a pretty traditional offset for a road flat – would be very interesting to see him run barefoot or in something flatter just to see what would happen. Likelihood of that is low of course given his sponsorship, but Adidas is making a new, lower profile flat called the Hagio and it will be interesting to see it on the feet of some elites. These kind of questions are what keep me going.

]]>
By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-336270201 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-336270201 In reply to theo7272.

Those four species/genera of finches would not exist if intraspecific variation did not exist in the population(s) that gave rise to them. We humans deal not only with intraspecific variation due to our genetics, but also a huge amount due to environmental causes like past/current shoe use and activity levels. In that sense we are quite different than a typical wild population. For a woman who spends 60 hours per week in high heeled shoes and is not going to change that habit(yes, they do exist and have been studied), a 12mm heel lift is probably quite reasonable.

]]>
By: mike https://runblogger.com/2011/10/on-human-variability-running-shoes-and.html#comment-337693819 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=397#comment-337693819 from the Culture on the ground: “The goose step is only possible on the artificially monotonous surface of the parade-ground”

What does ‘natural’ running form mean, considering the abundance of ‘artificially monotonous surfaces’? (e.g. roads, golf courses, exercise trails).

Human variability + surface variability -> form+surface homogeneity

]]>