Comments on: Vibram Fivefingers, Barefoot Running, Shoes, Heel Strikes, Loading Rates, and Injury Risk: My Giant Brain Dump https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html Running Shoes, Gear Reviews, and Posts on the Science of the Sport Wed, 11 May 2016 18:55:49 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.11 By: Jonathan Reece https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-1130420626 Wed, 11 May 2016 18:55:49 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-1130420626 I purchased a pair of shoes from Chineese Market, the price was low and they looked stylish liked the ones you have shown above, i though that i might be running like an animal in few days after wearing those shoes, but eventually when those shoes arrived i was really shocked to see the quality was dam bad. I guess we require to get a good pair of shoes from a branded showroom , that will help us in making a good running style.

]]>
By: David Damron https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-325186563 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-325186563 Hey Pete – 

I have been transitioning to Vibram Five Fingers over the last 4 months. My experience is mixed. 

The first month of wearing VFF’s saw me not running any further then 2 miles and having tight calves following each workout. Once I got through that 1st month, everything changed. I was able to significantly increase mileage each week, the calves didn’t tighten up any longer, and I have all but eliminated joint/muscle fatigue that I used to have with typical running shoes. Then last month came…

I ran an 8 miler and had a slight pain in my right 5th metatarsal about midfoot. It went away after a day or two and about a week later I ran a 10 miler. That’s when I had to head to the doctor. He took x-rays that ended up being negative. I took a week off then run a few miles followed by more physical therapy. The injury has improved dramatically. 

Next week, I am going to be running the Denver Rock n Roll Marathon. I will probably start in VFF’s and switch out to my typical Saucony’s at the half way point (if my wife finds me at the half way mark). 

My conclusion…

I am sticking with VFF’s as they have all but eliminated past pain in joints and muscles. I just need to transition slower. I exclaim this to EVERYONE, but didn’t take my own advice.

You can check out more of my thoughts on minimal running here: http://runningsomewhere.com/ru

Great run down Pete!

David Damron
Running Somewhere

]]>
By: Melanie https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-325580807 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-325580807 I already typed this up and then lost the whold thing so I’m keeping some stuff short.Here are some thoughts based on my own experience…Background first:As a kid – ran around barefoot all of the time on concrete, grass, etc… and developed a good natural running form. When wearing shoes it was pretty much Keds or other pretty minimal shoes which seemed to be the norm.Older kid up to college – had the structured/cushioned, popular running shoes of the time but did a lot of swimmin and played sports like softball, volleyball, and golf which didn’t require a lot of running and really no distance running at all.College – started to run more for excercise and for longer distances, also played rugby which required a lot of running. Had the structured/cushioned shoes and always had something that hurt. Most of the time it was the muscle on the lower outside of the leg right above the ankle that would get really tight where sometimes I couldn’t run 1/4 mile. I also got shin splints.Through college and after – tried multiple kinds of running shoes everything still hurt. Found out when I went to a foot place that one leg is about 3/8″ shorter than the other so apparently I needed to have special inserts made. These actually made everything worse.About 1 1/2 years ago – figured trying VFFs was about the only thing I hadn’t done yet so why the heck not. From day one of wearing them everything that hurt before didn’t hurt anymore. Granted I had some muscle soreness (like in my calves) but it was what I like to call a “good sore” rather than a “bad sore” because I was actually using the muscles in the right way and they were going to get stronger and be less sore over time. Now with my VFFs and Saucony A4s I can run the way my feet/legs/muscles want to run instead of the way a structured/cushioned shoe forces them to run. I now run pretty much pain free and farther than I have ever been able to run before (even though its still not very far). Also, I try to wear more minimal shoes to work like ballet flats or my Sperry’s and I’ve played the best golf in my life since I’ve been wearing my VFFs instead of regular golf shoes.So my thoughts:People that, from the beginning, learn to run in structured/cushioned shoes with a heel strike have trained their muscles that way so their muscles don’t know anything different. As a result when they transition to a barefoot/minimal shoe like a VFF their body does what it knows to do and unless they consciously try to, won’t switch to a fore/mid foot strike.Then there are people (like me) who learned to run barefoot from the beginning but were then in a lot of cases forced into the structured/cushioned shoe (that’s what was the stores had), in which heel striking occurs. When transitioning to a barefoot/minimal shoe in this case the body gets a chance to run like it learned to and you can see a subconscious transition from a heel strike to a fore/mid foot strike.Of course this is just based on my own experience, but it’s something to think about.

]]>
By: Daniel Riou https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-326095369 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-326095369 Hi, thanks for all your very high quality post. I read your posts and enjoy pretty much all of them. I am from Quebec City and heard from you from Blaise Dubois. Introduction done ;)
Regarding the video, I tend to agree with Mark U, that Vibram Five Fingers could be dangerous, as they maybe don’t absorb enough impact relatively to the feedback they give. Are they not giving enough feedback or are they not cushioned enough? That is a good question. From my own experience in barefoot running and running in hattori, I would say that running barefoot gives much more feedback and makes me feel like I’m running cautiously. Running cautiously seems to be a good way to prevent injuries, but is it the most efficient way to run? Another good question. 

Regarding form, I think we very often mistake «beautiful running form» with «good running form» or «efficient running form» or «running form that prevent injuries». I’m not too fond of changing running form in a healthy runner. Considering form changes, I remember from coaching badminton what we called in french «pratique variée». The principle was that if you alway do the same movement over and over (like a forehand), you only program it once. However, if you alternte forehand/backhand/forehand/etc. you have to program it everytime you switch. Wouldn’t running on different surfaces, while barefoot produce the same effect? Or what would running in different running shoes do? 

]]>
By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-324960524 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-324960524 In reply to Mark U..

I would agree – I think pure barefoot is more likely to elicit a change, even if they did not find that in this study. The video I have seems to indicate a difference between VFFs and barefoot.
Sent from my iPad

]]>
By: John Wall https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-323472396 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-323472396 That’s interesting data, I can’t understand how someone could switch to vibrams and still heel strike without rattling their teeth out. I think there should also be more focus on center of gravity, changing your gait is not that difficult if you concentrate on a forward lean.

]]>
By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-326022933 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-326022933 In reply to Sbartold.

Shorter stride length and increased cadence go hand in hand for a given pace over a given distance – the number of additional steps per minute required to accumulate 7500 over a marathon should only vary by how long it takes you to finish the marathon. If you shorten stride length with a forefoot strike, you have to increase cadence to maintain the same pace, but 30 steps/min is way too much. I’d also add that the correlation between height and stride length has been shown to be very low (e.g., by Cavanagh and colleagues) – very tall people can have short strides and vice versa.

i had a student who was seeing a PT who told her he knew she was a heel striker because that’s what she did when he watched her walk. I’m amazed by how few in health care look at gait when treating injured runners – we have a long way to go.

Pete

]]>
By: Robert Osfield https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-325630744 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-325630744 Hi Pete,

I’ve been pondering on the interplay between being shod vs barefoot and the time of flight vs time on stance.  From my own experiment of 1 I’m pretty sure that when running barefoot I up my cadence primarily by reducing time of flight rather than cutting time on stance, this isn’t something I consciously do but something that seems to happen instinctively to reduce the discomfort of soles of my feet.  Perhaps when they toughen up some more I’ll do this less.

Looking at your NYC barefoot video there is good example of this – have a look at for the vibram runner in yellow shorts and red top who is heel striking, and the barefoot running just in front of him wearing black shorts and bump bag.  I pick out this pair as they are both running pretty well in sync – save for the heel strike and time of flight.  What it looks to be is that the barefoot runner is spending less time in the air, and gets the foot down quicker, party because a planta-flexed foot reaches further down than a dorsa-flexed foot but I’d guess because the barefoot runner is pushing off less.  I haven’t done anything more than eye balling the difference, one really would need to properly analyze the motion to know how it all fits together.

Another observation that needs further analysis is that to me it looks like the angle between the point of first contact on the foot and to the center of the hips relative to the angle varies between forefoot and heel strikers.  To me your video suggests that the forefoot strikers are landing with a angle further off the vertical – so they are landing further in front of center of mass than their heel striker counter parts.  I really believe this needs to be properly measured and analyzed as this observation is contrary to what we get told is a good thing when it comes to running gait i.e. landing closer to your center of mass.

Finally a general comment about the video, I just find the majority of the barefoot runners to be so darn graceful, the fluidity of motion is what strikes me as enchanting.  A barefoot is also looks so natural and sleek compared even to minimal footwear.

]]>
By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-323805214 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-323805214 In reply to Jay.

I know they are in some specialty stores – my buddy Mark Cucuzzella sells them at TR Treads in WV. You can also get them on-line at Zappos, which allows free returns if shoes don’t fit. For girls, my daughter really like the Vivobarefoot Pally, but my son won’t wear any of them because he doesn’t like the looks. Both of my kids are currently in Merrell Barefoot and Crocs. The latter have a lot of cushion, but they are nice and wide, and they would rebel if I tried to take them away!

PEte

]]>
By: Sbartold https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-326257966 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-326257966 In reply to Pete Larson.

i do agree footwear and orthoses can have a very positive effect with many injuries, and the literature supports that, and like you, it is hard to know how enforced marching relates to running, but the fascinating thing about this report isthat they connected actual lack of physical repite, in the form of sleep.. with injury.. interesting concept..!

]]>
By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-323739440 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-323739440 In reply to John Shepard.

I view it differently – I’d like to have cheaper kids shoes, but a typical running shoe is more expensive and will wear out in far less than nine months if you only use one pair. Why should we hold kids shoes to a different standard if we think they are important to their health?

]]>
By: Paul Daly https://runblogger.com/2011/09/vibram-fivefingers-barefoot-running.html#comment-324154677 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=401#comment-324154677 You have a very interesting page.

]]>