Comments on: Metatarsal Stress Fractures in Runners Part II: Thoughts From a Radiologist https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html Running Shoes, Gear Reviews, and Posts on the Science of the Sport Thu, 28 Jul 2011 18:56:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.11 By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-268620039 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-268620039 In reply to XCpuma.

If it was a true stress fracture, I’d say yes. Stress fractures are overuse injuries where the bone is stressed faster than it can repair.

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By: Andrew W. Lischuk https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-284310545 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-284310545 In reply to John D.

John,
You make a great point regarding the distribution of forces in the foot in the shod vs. unshod state and I agree with your comments above.  I agree that the pattern of distribution of those forces change in one state vs. the other. My use of the cast analogy was an extreme example to show demineralization, as I have seen several stress fractures occur in patients who are coming back from injuries who have been recently casted.  I do however, believe that shoewear may have some impact on bone density, I just don’t have the scientific backing to prove it.  That impact may be like you said, in the pattern of distribution.  For instance, traditional bulky shoes are less flexible which would distribute the forces along the foot differently so your bones will adapt to those forces and if you change to minimalist/more flexible, shoewear the force distribution will be different.  It becomes quite complicated when you think about it, and designing a study to determine this with current technology would be frought with uncontrolled variable.  None the less, your thoughts are well recieved.

As for the Morton’s toe, I agree with Pete’s reply.  The length of the second toe will see increased forces on that metatarsal during the midstance phase over a longer duration of time.  It would thus be logical to expect more injuries with these runners. 

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-268232982 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-268232982 In reply to Mark.

A bone densitometer study would be very interesting, and you’re right on about the sample opportunity. Hmm….

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-284300577 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-284300577 In reply to John D.

I agree with most of what you are saying here – absolute force will be the same, but how and where specifically it is applied will change. One of the big differences when barefoot is that it’s quite possible that force under the second met head will be magnified since there is no shoe sole underneath to spread force application out. If you have force application focused on a smaller area, stress in this area will increase, and thus bending of the second met could increase as a result.

I do suspect Morton’s toe might raise the risk for the reasons that you suggest.

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By: Robert Osfield https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-382930729 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-382930729 I have been thinking recently about the instances of fractures in the 2nd and 3rd metatarsals and it occurred to me that the perhaps lack in strength in the big toes and muscles, fascia and ligaments supporting the 1st metatarsal might have role to play in these injuries.  If the 1st matatarsal isn’t doing it fair share I could see the  2nd and 3rd metatarsals being overused.

In particular I wonder about the way that big toe is bent inwards by years of poorly designed and fitting shoes, if the big toes isn’t in good alignment with the 1st metatarsal then the amount of force we can apply through the big toe and the 1st metatarsal. 

I recall a post of Mark Cucuzella about use of Correct Toes spaces, and the importance of the alignment of the big toe for running barefoot.  This made sense to me at the time, but I didn’t then ponder on the role of distribution of load across the toes and metatarsals.

Is this plausible?  Could we get feedback from those with 2nd and 3rd metatarsal injuries as to whether their big toes is well aligned to their 1st metatarsal or not.  Any X-rays taken of the feet would be ideal for doing such a review.

If this little theory does have some merit then Correct Toes or similar tool for bringing the toes back into alignment might well be a good way to develop foot structure that is better able to deliver the loads we demand of them.  If one had a metarsal injury already perhaps looking at solving this part of the problem will help, or if new runners (or new to barefoot/minimalist) would be to look at solving the big toes alignment prior to introducing too much barefoot/minimalist running.

As a wee note, my own big toes still are not perfectly aligned despite being barefoot for most of the last year.  Sitting at desk barefoot probably doesn’t count too much though!

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By: Andrew W. Lischuk https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-268287530 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-268287530 In reply to Pete Larson.

I’ll refer you to this study:

Skeletal Radiol. 2001 Feb;30(2):61-6.MRI abnormalities of foot and ankle in asymptomatic, physically active individuals.Lohman M, Kivisaari A, Vehmas T, Kallio P, Malmivaara A, Kivisaari L.They looked at 19 marathon runners post race with MRI and found areas of signal abnormality that are usually referred to as stress response and yet the athletes were asymptomatic.  This leads to the conclusion that MRI findings  do not always match clinical symptoms.  The answer still lies out there somewhere.As an aside, I saw at least 3 brave souls (or soles) on my trail run today (some areas of gravel) running barefoot.  I am not as brave and have resurrected my Kinvaras for now as my adidas adizero I feel are too narrow for my forefoot, despite my narrow width foot as it is.  There were giving me metatarsal pain which I found humorous since it was the subject of this topic.  

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By: Heelys Shoes https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-274686258 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-274686258 Unexpected things might just happened anywhere and anytime. That is why safety and proper knowledge about different things might be a big help.

Thank you for sharing this article with us. 

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By: Mark https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-268223293 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-268223293 Amazing lit review Andrew on an area most of us do think of in this detail.
Can you bring an ultrasound bone densitometer to the NYC Barefoot Run in September.  With some prescreening of the true barefooters and their volume we may have a good sample to compare against controls.  Pete you’re in…right?  Give away some beer as the study incentive and you’ll have lots of players.  Hard to get a large sample of western barefoot runners as opposed to barefoot livers (developing country) and this may be the ticket. 

I think you will discover lots of interesting things in foot thickness, muscle, and bone strength.

Mark Cucuzzella

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By: XCpuma https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-268379201 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-268379201 I am just getting over a stress fracture but it was in my toe, not my metatarsal. A lot less common, but do most of the same physiological forces apply to the cause?

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By: Greg Fowler https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-268664669 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-268664669 Back in the spring, I went to the podiatrist because of pain in 5th metatarsal.  X-rays showed I had broken 2nd and 3rd metatarsal (explains TOFP a few weeks before visit, I guess) and they had healed up but not perfectly.  The Dr. said the pain in the 5th was due to pressure caused by the weakness now in the 2nd & 3rd and, of course, recommended custom orthotics.  I did not get them.  To me the Dr. implied my 2nd and 3rd would always be weak, even saying this weakness increased the likelihood of breaking the 5th.  Is this researching saying this is not necessarily the case? 

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-268235117 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-268235117 So I’ll ask a question on my own blog comment section. Is it possible to tell the difference between a stress reaction and the normal remodeling response? I think the remodeling issue is really critical to this whole issue, and bone is likely to get weaker for a period after exposing it to a new stress before it gets stronger.

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By: John D https://runblogger.com/2011/07/metatarsal-stress-fractures-in-runners.html#comment-284297076 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=428#comment-284297076 Not sure I agree that unshod runners will have stronger metatarsal bones than shod runners.  I think your analogy to casting is flawed–when one foot or leg is in a cast, it bears little or no weight, and hence bone mineralization is reduced (weight-bearing activity being the main driver of increased bone density).  But in running, for a given runner at a given pace, the absolute weight supported by the bones is the same regardless of the footwear or lackthereof.  Different shoes (or no shoes) CHANGE where stress goes, and can change the loading rate of the impact (the unshod condition actually increasing the loading rate), but can’t change the absolute amount of force going through the feet, especially if we accept Dr. Kerrigan’s hypothesis that forces and the risk of injury are greatest at midstance–in that case, footstrike style would have VERY LITTLE to do with injury risk, as the force at midstance is similar regardless of footstrike patterns (but are the internal forces the same? A forefoot striker should have more energy rebounding from the stretch-shortening cycle of the Achilles/calf). 

I do think that shod runners will have different PATTERNS of bone mineralization, because the way they stress their metatarsals is different than how an unshod runner (especially a forefoot striker) would stress them.   Abruptly changing the stresses on the foot (by switching to barefoot running, for example) would stress the bone in a way it is not used to, causing a stress fracture.  Of course under this philosophy, an unshod runner would be at a similar risk if jumping into wearing shoes!

On a completely unrelated note, I’d be interested to know if Morton’s toe (having a longer second toe than big toe) is at all a factor in making second metatarsal stress fractures more common than 3rd, 4th, or 5th.  A runner with morton’s toe would have the second metatarsal head on the ground slightly longer (since the metatarsal is longer) than any of the other metatarsal heads, and that might cause more force to be directed into that metatarsal vs. the other four.  Thoughts?

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