Comments on: Mizuno Wave Prophecy – The Anti-Minimalist Shoe? https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html Running Shoes, Gear Reviews, and Posts on the Science of the Sport Mon, 14 Jul 2014 02:56:36 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.11 By: matt https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-1129748432 Mon, 14 Jul 2014 02:56:36 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-1129748432 we were all born barefoot, if we walked and ran without shoes since our birth our feet, ankles and legs would have developed differently into adulthood.

for me i ran 11.4 kilometers 6 days a week , wearing running shoes with a high drop, in the beginning of the runs my shins would be killing me, but the pain would subside and numb itself….after the runs my knees would kill me and the next morning plantar facilitis would make me walk around like i had stubs for feet.

fast forward one year later, i try barefoot running, to my amazement no shin pain, no knee pain, no morning plantar facilitis pain. Greater endurance, lighter on my feet, swifter speeds…and more energy throughout the day in general.

the first week the area between my calf and ankle was sore and tight from activating muscles that werent used to their fullest potential, after 3 days absolutely no more soreness or tightness at all whatsoever.

2nd week i decided to go all out and let my feet get blistered to speed up callus build up to toughen my bare soles. Ran 10km barefoot, with blisters on almost every toe, forefoot and heel…..got a needle and popped them all, squeezed the fluid out, and wore socks all day long….and took 3 days off to recover….4th day went back running barefoot, no real pain, but skin from the blisters came off, as i had planned….ran barefoot until it hurt then stopped mid run and ran with water socks for the rest of the way.

By the end of the month feet were tough as leather, got tired of dealing with ripped water socks and having to sew them up (real socks with thin rubber layer, not water socks like for beach use) no more blisters…and my feet were developing the way nature intended them to evolve with hard callus spots on impact areas – this is nature, its what nature intended….not silky smooth feet. I chose to go the extreme route in toughening my feet and my running path is literally like very course sandpaper gravel, an asphalt surface would not have caused the extreme blistering i deliberately set out to do to myself.

after 3 months got tired of stepping on rocks and berry seeds, looked at my old shoes and decide to make them as thin as possible. I take a knife to my adidas climacools leaving the forefoot with a 3mm height., 5-6mm heel. Form still feels like barefoot running, because of the extremely low height with minimal wasted energy that is absorbed by thicker foam.

4th month decide to take a look at the shoe store to search for something really thin and cool looking to wear around when i go out. Find adidas revenergy boost that look badass, butter thicker than J Lo’s butt….and hey it says ‘BOOST’ on it right ? (boost my ass)

I run in them and everything goes to shit, i cant breath- they throw off my rhythm, their too thick and absorb to much energy upon propulsion, the midfoot has a ‘torsion bar’ my foot cant bend and use all its potential.

They cause me to heel strike.

I write reviews on the adidas US and UK websites, saying exactly what i just said above, they approve my post and put it up on the websites and send me an email to inform me ‘ my post was approved’….2 days later i check it again and the post are no longer there. They tricked me, they lied, they did the bait and switch.

I look for cutting tools to cut the soles and file a credit card dispute for false advertising.

I welcome the day someone does a class action lawsuit, like the one vibram and sketchers went/are going through. Vibram shouldnt even be getting sued.

IMO big business shoeware is no different than big oil, theyll destroy any claims that will weaken their market.

Sorry for the long rant, but once youve done it, you know the truth.

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By: sam phillippi https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-1129611743 Mon, 05 May 2014 13:07:54 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-1129611743 Hello all,, I’ve been running Marathons in Brooks Ghost 4s and loved them,, however i fell into the trap of the Mizuno Prophcey 3 wave. Logging about 50 miles and one half marathon, my Achilles are screaming for me to go back to the Brooks. Anyone else out there experiencing this kind of pain??
Sam

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By: Guest https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-1126507291 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-1126507291 I like your blog, but I’m not sure how you can substantiate saying that a shoe “isn’t for you” if you have no plans of ever trying the shoe on. I am a “natural” runner, never landing on my heels, and I LOVE running in these shoes. I’m not sure why you would write off a shoe just because of a video of someone heel striking. Just because a shoe doesn’t label itself as “minimal” or “reduced” doesn’t mean you can’t mid or forefoot run in it. Mo Farah trains in Nike Pegasus shoes, and he’s not a heel striker…

I just hate the really snobby mentality that people have towards shoes that aren’t 4mm drop or less. Just me though…

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By: GaDawg0513 https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-399779357 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-399779357 I run in Mizuno Wave Riders and Precision’s, now
I’m a die-hard Precision fan with the 12’s. 
I bought the Prophecy when it first came out.  I ran in it two weeks and returned them.  First, they were heavy.  Second, they felt “clunky”.  Third, I felt like I was running on stilts with
how they raised me up off the ground.  I
was very disappointed in this shoe, but was able to purchase two pairs of Mizuno’s
from the store credit off the one pair of Prophecy’s (200$).

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By: Chris https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-211825182 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-211825182 Funny thing is 10 years ago I would have thought these looked great and might finally be the answer to all my injury woes and would have immediately rushed out and bought a pair. That was of course before I discovered that learning to run properly was the answer to all my injury woes

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-213990182 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-213990182 In reply to Neil Rosenthal.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts Neil. The Prophecy is most definitely not a midfoot/forefoot shoe.

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By: Justin Weinmeister https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-211568430 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-211568430 Do you think that the wave plate truly cushions as well as EVA? It seems like the plate wouldn’t work if the runner was abnormally light/heavy or applied a different amount of force to the ground. I have tried and liked the Wave Riders, but they never felt like they cushioned as well. Whats your opinion?

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-482970158 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-482970158 In reply to Steven.

I’m well aware of what is being sold in Japan vs. the US. However, plenty of manufacturers have brought minimalist offerings to the US, and they are selling amazingly well, so that argument does not hold. Asics head of international research has said that minimalism will go the way of toning shoes, and has referred to the “great barefoot/minimalist swindle.” You can read my debate with him here to get a sense of where my perspective comes from: https://runblogger.com/2011
I think Mizuno is a bit more progressive than Asics.

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By: Marcus https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-212575535 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-212575535 I think this is a pretty fair assessment actually, well done.

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By: Neil Rosenthal https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-213439281 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-213439281 We were sent a pair for analysis at our lab here in Ottawa and I might say from testing and review it certainly delivers promises of smooth transition through a gait cycle heel to toe. So I might concur the comment that if Mizuno set out to deliver a shoe that would perform well from for an over stride/heel striker they accomplished that well.

On the other hand when we tested it for a midfoot/forefoot striker the platform was (as you might expect for the plastic waveplate running start to finish) too torsionally rigid to not rapidly force the foot to stance. This delivered an increased load that was distinct from just the sound at contact. Pounding!! The weight of the shoe seems hardly economical for any runner- heel/midfoot/forefoot too. 
Comments of sensory feedback and proprioception were ok since the shoe is more firm. So I think compared to the Kinsei/Nimbus, Kayano, 1080 etc, etc, etc world of overly cushioned shoes they may have an edge of allowing the foot/body/brain to know what its doing.
Other than that I’d certainly say its on the complete opposite end of a spectrum to shoes facilitating a more natural running mechanic.

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By: Seb@GPS Watches https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-215460146 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-215460146 A great review. I agree though, don’t mess with what works. I have severe heal strike and some pronation and it took me ages to find a shoe that seems to keep me from being injured. The problem is they are always changing models from one year to the next.

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By: mygaitisbetterthanyours https://runblogger.com/2011/05/mizuno-wave-prophecy-anti-minimalist.html#comment-476833080 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=461#comment-476833080 I have read a lot of your reviews and in general I find them to be informative, well written, and thoughtful.  However, there is a common thread i have found that continually leaves me in disagreement:

That is, you give shoes WAY too much credit for a runner’s stride.  Running form (be it heel striking, mid/forefoot etc, overstriding, etc) is a product of natural body mechanics, neuromuscular memory, and for many of us who have spent time undoing bad habits, retraining our neuromuscular memory to “look/feel” for a more efficient stride. 

I have trained with recreational runners, college runners (who leave me in the dust), and even very serious ultramarathoners, and one thing holds true, their gait tends to be consistent independent of the particular shoe (that is if they are not consistently focused on forcing themselves to do something, as is often the case for people retraining as a mid/forefoot striker).  The only difference people tend to notice is the level of cushioning (obviously more important for heel-strikers), the shoe’s dimensions in regard to one’s foot (is the toe-box tight/roomy/toooooooo roomy), and how well the hell cups one’s foot (or doesn’t, at all).  All of these add up to two main things, does the shoe injure you (blisters, odd pressure point injuries, nerve compression etc), and does the level of feedback provided by the shoe match your impact pattern (yes, you can run on your forefoot and still have high impact, or still overstride etc…reality check).

Watch high level athletes train for distance runs.  While some prefer flats most of the time, many train in pretty “standard” (cushioned, thick [compared to minimal standards]) shoes, and guess what?  Their gait is still more beautiful, balanced, and perfect in comparison to 99% of the population, regardless of the shoe they are wearing.

Just my two cents. Put it towards your next pair of $110.00 minimal shoes.

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