Comments on: New Science on Running Barefoot vs. in Low Drop Shoes: Effects on Ground Impact https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html Running Shoes, Gear Reviews, and Posts on the Science of the Sport Wed, 02 Mar 2011 03:06:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.11 By: Whotrustedus https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-159253249 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-159253249 I recently switched from VFF Sprints to Merrell Trails. I didn’t have to think about a midfoot strike with my Sprints. It just happened. But I think I fell right back to a heel strike in the Trails. I presume there is enough of a outsole on the Trails that a heel strike is not immediately painful. As such, my old knee pains have come back. I did a run this morning in my Trails where I really focused on form (including carrying along a metronome to force the right pace.) I did find that a midfoot strike was not natural with my Trails and I had to focus.

The Trails are zero drop. As such, I agree with other posts that suggest that the heel drop may be less important than the sole thickness.

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-558663425 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-558663425 In reply to TL.

It’s a good question – have not written about this type of comparison. The difficult part is that in any study like that you have people who are adapted to one strike type or the other, so having them switch can provide misleading results.

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By: TL https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-558439943 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-558439943 Pete,
Not sure if you’ve already addressed this but it would be interesting to see what the amount of increased workload on the ankle/foot and its related force is in comparison to the lesser workload and related force on the knee/hip force as they both relate to their injury rate in each approach of running (shod vs. unshod)(cushioned vs. unchusioned), etc,.

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-159557660 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-159557660 In reply to Whotrustedus.

Interesting thoughts. I personally find drop to make a big difference, but
absolute thickness can as well. I can run midfoot in a lot of shoes, but it
may be because I am constantly varying what I run in due to my reviewing and
thus can shift easily from shoe to shoe. I found that even a zero drop shoe
with a thick sole like the GoLite Amp allowed a fairly natural midfoot
stride. In the Vibrams, however, I think I mostly run on the forefoot, and I
think the Merrells are pretty similar for me. May be a case of a lot of
individual variation.

Pete

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By: ashby https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-159872294 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-159872294 In reply to DukeofTexas.

Of course, these were not long runs. While there may be little/no measurable benefit to the knees and ankles at impact peak, I think that there may still be a benefit to the feet for some (minimal and strategic) cushioning on longer runs. I’ve put hundreds of miles on my VFF Bikila, and I totally love them, but after 9-10 miles on pavement, there is definitely some serious tissue tenderness.

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By: Jeremy https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-158779944 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-158779944 Similar to what you point out in your analysis points 1 & 2 I would like to see what the results would be with a variety of zero drop footwear instead of maintaining a drop across all footwear. How much different would the study then become?

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By: Jamoosh https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-158940472 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-158940472 What the study is missing is what happens after short term acclimation. For example, if I spend two weeks running barefoot and then go shod, what happens? I can tell you what happens with me (and obviously I am not representative of any number of runners), I revert back to a heel strike. Even if I put on a pair of Vibrams, I still heel strike once the foot is covered, regardless of the drop. Admittedly, I am slow on the uptake, but this does support the notion (which you have put forth many times over) that gait change is not a short term proposition, but something that requires time and focus. On the other hand, terrain may also factor into what happens. Taking the example of the Vibrams again, if I wear Vibrams on a trail, I am more apt to run with a barefoot stride/gait, than my typical heel triking gait.

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By: Aaron https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-158876740 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-158876740 I run in vibrams and running sandals back to back. I can tell you that there is more support in those vibrams than I would have thought. Even though it is little more than fabric, there is quite a bit of constriction that comes into play when your toes want to splay. The Luna Sandals allow for that while affording rock protection. Great write up!

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By: Whotrustedus https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-159802441 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-159802441 In reply to Pete Larson.

I’m sure that is correct. And maybe variations in experience. My Sprints have a particularly thin sole. I can really feel the ground. I tell folks that wearing my Sprints feels just like barefoot but less danger of cuts & scrapes. As such, I am feel forced to adopt a soft strike. With my Trails, I feel a lot less ground. From a ground sensation standpoint, they feel like regular shoes. At least right now, while they are still new. As such, I think it is easier for a newbie like me to fall back to my old stride, even with a zero drop.

Or maybe not. I’m just making this up as I go along. I’m quite ready to defer to Dr. Pete!

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By: DukeofTexas https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-159804750 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-159804750 I only read the abstract, but I found it interesting that “For impact peak, ankle stiffness and knee stiffness, there was no difference among the shod conditions”. I know it has been discussed before, but it shows that there is no point to big cushioned shoes.

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By: Danny https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-160592983 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-160592983 In reply to Pete Larson.

Hi Pete,
I tend to agree with your experience. I too run in a lot of different shoes and can run with a midfoot strike in all of them, but when I wear my VFF’s or the EVO’s I tend to feel myself touching down on my forefoot and then immediately going to the midfoot stance for the support phase of the stride. Where I notice the difference most is on downhills. When I’m in zero drop shoes I always have shift my landing to a more forefoot strike because of the impact of running downhill. In the more traditional running shoes I can run much faster downhills because the cushioning effect of the extra heel height helps to dissipate the impact of the landing. I’d have to say that racing in zero drop minimalist shoes has the effect of slowing me down. For faster running I resort to my favorite racing flats (Mizuno Wave Universe III). Thanks for posting this study. Every little bit helps to educate people to make better choices.

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By: charlie https://runblogger.com/2011/03/new-science-on-running-barefoot-vs-in.html#comment-158779998 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=495#comment-158779998 I like your number 3 question
3. How would the results of this study vary if habitual minimalist/barefoot runners were tested?

I would have also liked to see these runners in two zero drop shoes one with cushioning and one without like a KSO

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