Comments on: Forefoot Width in Running Shoes: Toebox Measurements from My Shoe Collection

By: Jay T

Jay T — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Very interesting, I have had no problems running in Mach 11's and Brooks Launch. But I had major blister problems with the Kinvara (which is wider than the Mach 11 and about the same as the Launch). The Kinvara width did feel fine on my feet. There must be more to it than just width. Must also have something to do with the last shape and/or the upper material. Thank you Peter for all of your posts, I enjoy the information and it really gives food for thought.

By: Sam Winebaum

Sam Winebaum — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Happy New Year. Thanks for this great analysis. The Ronin really caught my eye given its width and that it is a racing shoe. The amount of wear may also be a factor. I found my first pair of Kinvaras seemed to stretch considerably in the forefoot, almost too sloppy now when compared to my new pair. It also seems clear that the amount of stretch in the shoe material may be a factor as is the relative tightness over the forefoot further, back not only how tight laced but also construction and as you said the forefoot volume in the shoe, call it forefoot upper "ramp angle" . I wonder also if the firmness of the midsole material affects the feel of spaciousness on the run as the foot has more room to spread into a softer midsole.
BTW I road ran 2:05 minutes Sunday in my Hoka One One Mafate about 14 and the furthest on road in these shoes and since St. George Marathon. Amazing leg freshness during, after, and this morning.

Sam

samwinebaum.blogspot.com

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Winfinancial.

My guess is that with Fivefingers you tend to land more forward on the
forefoot, which in turn reduces pronation, rotation of the tiba, and stress
on the ITB. It may also be that the less cushion in the VFF cause you to
really shorten and quicken your stride, which could help as well. Just
guessing on these though. The Minimus is a pretty wide shoe, so I'm at a
loss to explain what it is other than some weird compensation for the ill
fit on the other side.

Pete

By: Briderdt

Briderdt — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

I think even more important than the raw number of the width is the overall shape. Those Nike Frees in the picture may be "wide" in raw numbers, but the way the toe box sweeps over on the outside (little toe) doesn't allow for much outward splay of the foot. Also, the inward curve of the big toe seems to just be a modeling of an otherwise bound foot (think bunions). I'm waiting eagerly for the Altras -- hopefully their last has got it right. Not many have, especially Nike.

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Roberto.

I suppose it's possible, but I measured right wear the upper fabric meets
the sole so I don't see how that would change much. On top of that, I have a
lot more miles on my Kinvaras than I do on my Green Silence. Shoefitr scans
the insdide of the shoe I think, so maybe the internal dimensions are
different. My sense is that the GS does have a "rounder" forefoot though,
whereas the Kinvara is more pointy.

Pete

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Winfinancial.

It's a continual experiment to find the shoes that best match your
needs, but finding the right one is a fun process. Too bad it also
sometimes involves pain :)
Pete

By: Eric Johnson

Eric Johnson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

hey pete,

can you clarify where you are measuring the shoes?

you say you are measuring your foot between the 1st and 5th metatarsals...a line through these two points is not a right angle to a line drawn through the foot from heel to toe.

but measuring the widest part of the shoe is, i'm assuming, a right angle to a line drawn through the shoe from the heel to the toe.

the two measurements (width of foot vs width of shoe) won't correlate 100%. what are your thoughts on that?

i manage a running specialty store and we are thinking about integrating this measurement into our gait analysis so we can have a bit more info going into the fitting process.

this is great stuff! good post.

By: Abeytu

Abeytu — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Interesting observations. What particularly strikes me as interesting is that the natural bare foot splays very wide under load - this motion would be constrained within the shoe I guess. I run in New Balance shoes, and am very happy with the forefoot room, so recon I'm a middle of the road width too.

By: Winfinancial

Winfinancial — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Pete Larson.

Pete,

It's funny you posted these measurements as I was thinking about the 5fingers post 7 mile run and ITB talking to me a lot this weekend. And then there is the data! Great work that you contribute to those of us who are always thinking about getting better. I think our bodies are always trying to tell us something about our form. Still trying to find my zone of pain free running. Thought the Newtons were most of the answer. Perhaps we will have to dig a little deeper down the rabbit hole.

Thanks for all your running contributions to us Pete!

By: Eric Johnson

Eric Johnson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

we measured all of the shoes (men's size 10 and women's size 8.5) we carry at our store and were very surprised by the results. for example, we think the brooks addiction is a wide shoe but it's actually narrower than the asics ds trainer or the 2160. i think the last shape (narrowest part) is one of the more important measurements for width. think we'll have to measure that as well now.

i'll post them when i get a chance to type it all up.

By: Pete Larson

Pete Larson — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

In reply to Winfinancial.

Hmm..I know a few people who always say to take the insoles out of the
Newtons. I have done so myself on a lot of runs, and it does then feel more
roomy and firmer underfoot. Will be interesting to see if your success
continues...makes me want to try the Minimus Trail again without socks to
make a bit more room for my feet.

Pete

By: Brian@Altra

Brian@Altra — Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000

Pete,

I was interested in how our shoes (Altra Footwear) compared to the others. Based off your measuring type which is where the upper material meets the outsole I believe? the Adam in a 10.5 measured at 105.8. The insole width, how I usually gauge it, measured in at 101.6. Should be less then 24 hours before you are able to measure and try on the Instinct. Enjoy and great comparison.

Brian @ Altra