Comments on: Forefoot Striking and Pronation: Insight from an Ultrarunning Podiatry Student https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html Running Shoes, Gear Reviews, and Posts on the Science of the Sport Thu, 13 Jan 2011 01:59:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.12 By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-128609280 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-128609280 In reply to Paul.

This is a very interesting thought. I’ve long suspected that forefoot
striking in a shoe with a large heel lift makes no sense, and this could be
a plausible reason as to why it could actually be counterproductive. I find
that a small heel lift (about 4-6mm) can help reduce calf soreness from
midfoot/forefoot striking because it presumably reduces the amount of
stretch of the calf and achilles. I’d really like to see a study comparing
forefoot striking in shoes of varying heel height. Maybe I can mess around
with my camera sometime.

Pete

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-129299461 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-129299461 In reply to PhilS.

This is why so much of this comes down to personal experimentation. Science
can provide information on general trends, but generally can’t “prescribe”
what is best for the individual. I’m continually amazed at how many studies
report that results were non-systematic. If what you are doing isn’t
working, try something different. Until recently though, with the advent of
an increased recognition that there are options when it comes to form and
footwear, trying something different was very hard to do.

Pete

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By: judy https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-129439238 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-129439238 Hi I just found your blog and think your info is fantastic! I am in Bedford and am searching for a running group/club in my area. Do you know of any? thanks,
Judy ranrnrunning.com
ran
ranrunrunning.com

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-128479241 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-128479241 In reply to Fitz.

The point Phil is making is that in a forefoot strike, impact absorption is
taken on by the calf and achilles. My personal feeling is that pronation can
be a problem, but that it’s not always the evil thing that it’s made out to
be. And I certainly don’t think that our entire basis for assigning running
shoes should be the amount of pronation exhibited by a runner. Overpronation
could very well be a symptom of heel striking caused by overcushioned shoes,
so pronation control shoes may just be a solution engineered to deal with a
problem caused by the shoes in the first place. We are fighting technology
with even more technology, when doing what is most natural may avoid the
problem altogether. I should also note that Geb was wearing a shoe that
another guest poster seemed to indicated vastly increases his degree of
overpronation (Adidas Adios I think).

Pete

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By: Andrew W. Lischuk https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-128615188 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-128615188 Another interesting post and interesting debate. As a recreational runner and as a musculoskeletal radiologist I have a strong particular interest in this topic. I too have struggled with nagging injuries while running, the worst of which is a recurrent posterior tibial tendonitis. Most of my life I have been told, and have noticed myself that I am an “overpronator”, however I have never heard anyone define what delineates “normal” pronation from overpronation. I have experimented myself going from a heel toe strike in the rigid motion control shoes to a now primarily midfoot, forefoot strike in minimalist shoes (Saucony Kinvary, Adidas Adizero). My posterior tibial tendinitis is improving (hasn’t disappeared) but has been replaced with an achilles tendonopathy (which I believe is my fault since broke the rules and increased both my speed and distance dramatically and rapidly). Any scientific design to research this topic will need to involve a large number of runners from all walks of life, all shapes and sizes, and likely utilize high speed imaging. Bone pins would not pass any IRB review in the USA. They do some strange things in Scandinavia, but do get some great science from it (don’t know if that’s good for the folks in the studies though!) Maybe flouroscopy evaluation if we can design a machine to image the bones and then slow down the process, and find some volunteers willing to irradiate their feet while running.
Love the discussion.

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By: JohnD https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-128516121 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-128516121 A few things:
1) Pronation has not been shown to be directly related to injury anyways–see Benno Nigg’s article here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pu

2) Any study comparing barefoot to shod foot motion (including rearfoot eversion or “maximum pronation”) is highly suspect unless it used bone pins to measure actual bone movement–when using markers on a shoe, the actual bones only move about half as much as the shoe does, so when you run barefoot, you will appear to pronate less, even if your mechanics did not change at all. I have a paper on bone pin measurements somewhere, I’ll see if I can find it later.

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-369507609 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-369507609 In reply to AndreaLaurenS.

Don’t think he ever sent it to me – if he left a comment you might be able to ask him directly – can’t remember if he did, and I answer these comments via email.

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By: Neomaxifondweebie https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-128660780 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-128660780 great post! i’m really looking forward to more research in this area. Hopefully someone will start doing some studies on “flat feet” and barefoot/minimalist running. doesn’t any one know if the test subjects where people with “normal” feet?

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By: Eric Johnson https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-129185841 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-129185841 I just returned from Jay DiCharry’s SPEED lab in Charlottesville, NC. His lab is only one of two in the world where average joe’s can get a 3D analysis of their running to get faster or solve injury problems. http://www.uvaendurosport.com/

He was also a featured speaker at the Newton Running Conference last August in Boulder and is one of the most respected run biomechanics guys out there.

I had 5 hours to pop off as many questions as I could and one thing I took away from him is that over-pronation really isn’t that big of a deal. I believe he uses a measurement of “Navicular Drop” to determine if a runner needs stability shoes or not. And it’s not that many people out there that do.

It’s really hard to correct over-pronation if the runner is running efficiently since max pronation occurs at toe off, far later in the gait cycle than most orthotics or shoes can correct it.

Glad to see the new generation of podiatrists if coming out with an interest in this stuff. All of the guys in our town are totally old school…they use very outdated methods and orthotics.

Interesting stuff!

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By: PhilS https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-129297457 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-129297457 In reply to Stucker1980.

Thanks for bringing up these points. I couldn’t agree more. For any solid conclusion, we need to see studies with much better controls, many more subjects, and a longer time frame. Will that happen soon? I doubt it. So far, we can look at studies of very limited scope. I get the sense that many runners want to answer the questions, “which is better, forefoot or rearfoot striking” or “which is better, barefoot or shod running?” Injury rates would be a nice way to quantify this judgement, but will be so fraught with potential error that I would hesitate to make any conclusion. Did the study control for mileage? Intensity? Terrain? Running experience? Rest and recovery time? Any number of other factors? For now I’ll have to be content to look at how gait is affected by parameters we can more easily measure.

Anyway, it’s fascinating stuff. Thanks for reading.

Phil Shaw

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By: Fitz https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-128476730 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-128476730 Is reducing pronation always a good thing though? Pete had posted a video of Haile Gebrselassie running a marathon (I believe it was his 2:03:59) and he was pronating a lot. The commentary said something along the lines of “the pronation is protecting his body from the impact forces of running ~4:40 pace on pavement.”

Thanks for the analysis Phil!

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By: Kfstarnes https://runblogger.com/2011/01/forefoot-striking-and-pronation-insight.html#comment-128468807 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=514#comment-128468807 Good article. I’ve got feet like pancakes thus tend to “overpronate”. I’ve always thought the only way I could run was with tank-like shoes and heavy orthotics, and honestly thought only people with perfect feet could, or should go barefoot or minimal.

Last fall I started making the move toward the minimal end, to where I’m in NB101s with very light insoles, and consider myself a pretty good mid-foot runner. I’m faster, my shin-splints and ITB have gone away, and I honestly have more fun running. But I’ve been hesitant to go any further. So I’m glad to see someone take a scientific approach to this, and show that perhaps my issues weren’t just something I was born with and would have to deal with, but something I could take control of.

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