Comments on: Running Form, the Origin of Minimalism, and the Elite vs. Recreational Divide https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html Running Shoes, Gear Reviews, and Posts on the Science of the Sport Tue, 21 Sep 2010 03:43:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.12 By: Eoin https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-79706882 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-79706882 I think in a lot of sports the breakthroughs start at the elite end and filter down. I do a lot of technical diving and can say without a shadow of a doubt that any of the skills/equipment that are currently de facto standard were once only used by the elite divers doing major exploration dives.
Food for thought…

Eoin

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By: garyyu https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-80512771 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-80512771 I am also think in a lot of sports the breakthroughs start at the elite end and filter down.This is such a beautiful post,and Congratulations.

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-79807258 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-79807258 In reply to JAB.

My experience exactly!
Pete

On Tuesday, September 21, 2010, Disqus

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By: Mark U. https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-79712806 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-79712806 Great post! I agree that elites knowledge and training methods have preceded and influenced the minimalist running movement (e.g. Stanford University’s track teams historic use of barefoot running to strengthen their runners’ and improve their form), *but* that it took the book “Born to Run”, companies such as Newton, and the Web (i.e. running targeted blogs, podcasts and videos) to effectively spread the word to the non-elites that *running form matters*, and that conventional running shoes have been contributing to the running injuries problem.

In your blog post yesterday you’d referenced the excellent Living Barefoot podcast, where there’s a couple of interviews which relate to other points that you’d made on today’s blog. First, I was very happy to hear Dr. Mark Cucuzella talk favorably about Evolution Running (which I follow) along with Pose and Chi. It’s interesting, because he cited ER as being more suited for the performance-focused runner than the other two – though acknowledged there’s value in learning all three methods (which is good, as I see the differences as subtle, and ER’s DVD has been more helpful than other videos or books that I’ve found.)

Secondly, the interview with Jason Robillard might be applicable as regards your wife. Jason expresses a *very* interesting perspective which I’d never previously heard or considered, as it initially seems a bit counter-intuitive. He recommends all runners interested in transitioning to a minimalist shoe *first* learn to run barefoot, given the fact that as afferent feedback is maximized the individual will quickest adapt their stride to an improved rapid cadence, forefoot/midfoot landing. This adaptation requires no explanation or thought, as the foot and the body will – defensively! – make these changes, and after the individual appreciates how their form has changed (a before and after video might be useful) then they may be more open to the minimalist shoes alternatives and their advantages/disadvantages.

Good luck!

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By: Todd https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-79698215 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-79698215 Pete,
Thank you for writing this article! I’m not a competitive runner. I simply run for fun and I’m one of those people that until born to run came out and people like Danny Dryer started taking their beliefs to the masses, just wasn’t able too. So, whether or not you agree with them they do deserve credit for at least helping to change the direction of running for so many in a positive direction.

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By: Ken https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-79856423 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-79856423 Pete,
I just wanted add my two cents. I’m so glad that you wrote this. I think your main points are spot on.

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By: FREDERIC BROSSARD https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-79669032 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-79669032 As usual a very interesting article …
Keep on that tremendous work :-)

FRED (http://www.wanarun.net)

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-81054259 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-81054259 In reply to Owen.

Owen,

Great to hear it – keep working at it and hopefully things will continue to
improve. Good luck at Freedom’s run – I’ve heard a lot about it and imagine
it will be a great event – get that 1:40!

Pete

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By: Lawrence https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-535022643 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-535022643 As a teacher of the Alexander Technique, I feel that the best way to really improve running is to work on resting posture, and posture is only improved by learning to stop doing the things that interfere with the dynamic, reflex relationship between all muscles. Doing things like trying to shorten the stride so that the foot lands under the body are merely ways of compensating for poor posture, and ultimately result in increased effort (although there may be short term benefits).

http://www.alexandertechnique-running...

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By: Chris K https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-81113154 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-81113154 For your wife: I’ve dealt with chronic hip pain, no fun. (Well actually my pain is in the iliac crest region), but I have solved that issue with barefoot running form. When I get tired and my form suffers, my pain comes back; as long as I watch my form, no pain and I can keep running.

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By: Jonathan Foley https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-80389194 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-80389194 Gravity is certainly a vertical force. The point is that with a forward lean, you are shifting mass in front of your COM. Thus, there is a component of the gravitational force that is in the direction of travel. Does this provide all the propulsion for efficient runners? Not likely. The key is learning to store this energy as efficiently as our muscles have evolved to allow. Eliminating braking forces in the stride can do as much as exerting more propulsive forces. So the question is does maximum energy storage occur when the foot lands underneath the COM as opposed to slightly in front? I haven’t seen data that specifically measure this, so until then all discussion is purely conjecture. How static forces interact with the energy storage and release of the muscles in the foot and legs is complicated.

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2010/09/running-form-origin-of-minimalism-and.html#comment-79801959 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=567#comment-79801959 In reply to Tait.

Tait,

I have thought the exact same thing, particularly since I was
questioned by some of e Pose and Chi folks after I wrote my center of
gravity post. Some people seem to cling to ideas even when they may
not be right because to admit one is wrong can make you look bad. One
of the things I always tell my students is to tell me if I make a
mistake, and not to take what I say as a professor as dogma. We are
all fallible, and it says a lot when you can admit you were in error.
In fact, learning from our mistakes is one of the best ways to move
forward and advance understanding. If someone sent me a video showing
a runner moving at steady speed contacting directly under the center
of gravity I would have posted it – I haven’t gotten one yet.

Pete

On Tuesday, September 21, 2010, Disqus

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