Comments on: A Contrast in Form: Variable Running Gaits at the 10K Mark of a Marathon/Half-Marathon https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html Running Shoes, Gear Reviews, and Posts on the Science of the Sport Wed, 15 Sep 2010 04:22:00 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=5.7.12 By: Will https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-77783553 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-77783553 What do you think about Matt Fitzgerald’s take on pose and chi running?

http://running.competitor.com/

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By: Annette https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-79774245 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-79774245 Pete, I’m a little late on this, but do you have any tips on how to go about modifying your running form to shorter and quicker strides? While I’ve never videotaped myself running, I’m guessing my strides look a lot like your video from 2009. I’ve struggled with, as a recreational runner, whether I should bother with altering my stride, or just run as comes naturally. I did recently switch from the Brooks Adrenaline to Brooks Launch, but I am still heel-striking (and likely overstriding).

Do you just tell yourself to take shorter, quicker steps? Or is there some kind of cue to help this process? I have read that 180 steps/minute is optimal, but right now I can’t seem to keep up more than 165-170 steps/minute (yes, I have counted…)

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By: Paul https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-77741095 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-77741095 Great post. With respect you your comment about changing your running style, I understand where you’re coming from. Around May this year, after consistent issues with ITBFS I decided to fix the cause rather than treat the symptoms. With a little help I’ve moved to quicker shorter strides and now transitioning over to minimal running as a result (my once great love for Asics 2100 series shoes is now gone, they feel awkward!). I haven’t enjoyed running more! It’s feels so much easier now and I haven’t had any niggles since May.

Changing running style was the best thing I’ve done for a long time.

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By: Mark https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-77957676 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-77957676 Pete ,
This is a great post and makes a strong case that one should not heel strike if they want to run for a long time (maybe even into the nursing home). As a doc folks are always asking me where the studies are. To study the long term degenerative effects of hard heel strike would take years. By watching the video one conceptually knows …this hurts.
An analogy is what we are starting to learn about repetitive impacts in football and that it is not a good thing. The autopsy specimens prove it. Just this week a college football player committed suicide and the post mortem indicated he had chronic traumatic encephalopathy. http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH
We have living autopsies of many former runners in the form of degenerative changes in the knees, hips, and back. Many are too crippled to keep running, at least in the form they are used to. We do not see these findings in barefoot societies, even though they walk way more than western countries.
So why don’t we do the randomized trials for football? Let’s take one group and strike them on the head with a hammer thousands of times and take another group and apply repetitive incremental pressure that they sense and adapt too. Any volunteers? If you are considering it watch these NFL films.
Parental discretion advised.
http://www.wvpubcast.org/newsa
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v

Happy trails
Mark Cucuzzella MD
http://www.trtreads.org

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-94654777 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-94654777 In reply to Bradsven.

I honestly don’t think we know the answer to questions like this yet – the
return to minimalist shoes is a relatively new phenomenon, and a lot of
research needs to be done on these types of things. Best I can say is to
listen to your body, and ease up if anything starts to feel off. Rest is key
during the transition.

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-79804226 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-79804226 In reply to Annette.

Anette,

I’d say that if you have been running well and without injury, stride
change may not be necessary for you. It’s a hot topic right now, so
lots of people are thinking about doing it, but as I have no injury
history my main reason for changing was just to see if I could. It
took a long time, but I think things have finally clicked a bit me –
whether it’s better, I have no idea at this point, and it’s still a
work in progress. If you have a digitial camera that will take video
clips, try filming and see what you look like – can’t hurt, and I have
learned a lot from observing myself, and it really helped to make me
more conscious of what I am doing form-wise.

If you have had a history of injury, maybe some form work would be of
benefit. For me, wearing Vibrams once a week for several months really
helped – you can feel the ground a lot better, and you don’t risk
injury as much by running in them less frequently. Short barefoot runs
on a track infield can also help, or if you are brave you can even do
them on smooth asphalt (i have and it’s kind of fun). I also found the
cue to “put the foot down behind you” to be helpful in thinking about
footstrike location – it’s not what really happens, but it’s a useful
thing to make you conscious of form. Also consider migrating to lower
heeled shoes for more of your everyday runs – something like the Nike
Free or Saucony Kinvara are good intermediate choices.

Whatever you do, take it slow, and expect that it will feel awkward at
first. Form change takes time to become ingrained, and I’m still not
sure I’m fully there – need to get my camera back out!

Pete

On Tuesday, September 21, 2010, Disqus

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By: rh https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-78028131 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-78028131 In reply to Pete Larson.

I think he does have a point though when he says that, if speed is your purpose, concentrating on running technique alone won’t make you any faster. At least in part it seems to work the other way around: Each speed generates it’s own gait.

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-78121075 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-78121075 In reply to rh.

I wouldn’t even necessarily agree with this. If better technique is not
capable of increasing speed (e.g., by minimizing braking forces), then there
would be no reason for Alberto Salazar (or any other coach for that matter)
to be messing with Dathan Ritzenhein or Alan Webb’s running form/gait (the
fact that he is has been well documented in the American media frequently in
recent months). I have to imagine that coaches at Salazar’s level with
access to the research facilities and biomechanical experts at the Nike
Facility are on top of things when it comes to modifying running form.

I would agree that there is far more to speed than just technique (training,
physiology, psychology are all important), but to ignore technique and call
it solely an unconscious process as Fitzgerald seems to assert seems a bit
off to me. How many other sports can you think of where we tell athletes
just to let it come naturally and don’t think about your form?

Pete

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By: Pete Larson https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-77975423 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-77975423 In reply to Will.

I tend to think it’s a case of “ask you favorite expert.” Amby Burfoot just
recently interviewed the scientist from the University of Wisconsin on his
Peak Performance blog (
http://peakperformance.runners
who seemed to very much think that form change was possible and of potential
benefit. I know far too many people who seem to have clearly benefited from
a change in running form to agree with that article (read my recent
interview with Mark Cucuzzella for example:
https://runblogger.com/2010….

It’s important to remember that changing form to the point where it becomes
comfortable takes a lot of time – I speak from experience. Thus, I don’t put
much stock in any study that compares metabolic efficiency of a new running
form shortly after a change was made – it requires dedication, practice, and
persistent effort. Furthermore, metabolic efficiency is just one factor to
consider – what about impact reduction and injury prevention? Heiderscheit’s
results are pretty clear about how increasing stride rate can reduce impact
on the knee and hip.

Pete

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By: zbsports https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-77739650 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-77739650 This is a very nice post, so informative and interesting. Thanks for sharing such a great post.

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By: Bob Redding https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-79057563 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-79057563 I’m jealous!! I wish I had a slo-mo of my gait before I started running minimalist and barefoot. Would love to be able to see the difference. I suppose I could try to “forget” what I’ve now programmed into my feet, ankles, and legs and get out my son’s high speed camera, but it just wouldn’t be the same.

Anyway, great post. There is still so much to learn about this stuff and its fun to analyze and theorize AND be able to experiment on your own.

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By: Bradsven https://runblogger.com/2010/09/contrast-in-form-variable-running-gaits.html#comment-94082724 Tue, 30 Nov -0001 00:00:00 +0000 http://localhost/runblogger/wordpress/?p=570#comment-94082724 Great posting. Thank you. I becoming more and more of an avid runner (30+ mi per week). I am 6’6″ and weigh 205. So, ie, tall and skinny but still 205 lbs. That means longer stride and some extra weight. What say you about minimalist runners with this physical make up (added stress on knees, ligaments, joints, etc???). I just got my first pair of minimalist shoes (NB 100). First run was an 8 miler, next 11, next 12. Felt fine after but the longterm problems?

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